»Hope is the lifeblood of this city«
Interview 1
Is this your first visit to Johannesburg or have you already been here before?
LPH: It‘s my first time here, my first visit to South Africa.
What are your expectations?
LPH: Well initially my visit appeared ill-fated due to the riots which broke out in the townships just prior to my departure. The newspapers, primarily the tabloids, carried reports of numerous dead and injured. A Norwegian women was also killed during the riots. So naturally my family and friends were worried about me. Consequently I arrived here with mixed feelings. I simply didn‘t know what was awaiting me at the other end of the world. But despite all the warnings, my experience to date has been overwhelmingly positive.
And what is your first impression?
LPH: Largely positive. I have got to know some very nice people. But, of course, the tension, the complexity of this city can be felt everywhere, be it in the architecture or in the social life. However, the reality is substantially different from my ideas about South African culture, or to be more exact my prejudices. And that‘s what this project is all about: identifying such things.
How did you prepare for the trip? With literature, films, books, discussions or via the Internet?
LPH: A little bit of everything. I‘ve read some travel guides, spoken to people who have been here before, including embassy staff, and I‘ve read some books by South African authors. But I didn‘t overdo it as I wanted to approach the project free of any preconceptions and just see what happens. Another possibility would have been to plan everything meticulously in advance – but that is not my approach.
What are you intending to explore in this city?
LPH: There are endless possibilities, and that is perhaps the problem. I will definitely try and find my own way of accessing, of resonating personally with the city and, at the same time, keep an open mind and get to know as many different people and as many different places as possible. Basically, however, it is the small stories which interest me the most.
Why did you decide to participate in the »into...« project?
LPH: Essentially the project attracted me because in my artistic work I frequently explore the space between a composition and its context, the relationship between music and reality, i.e. the circumstances under which the piece was created. Insofar, adopting such a non-musical approach to a composition is nothing new for me and in this respect »into…« promises many exciting possibilities. Johannesburg is a rapidly expanding metropolis, and with its complex history, and despite all its problems, is a wonderfully exciting city. There is so much here to discover.
Are you familiar with the music of this country or interested in it?
I am not intending to explicitly allude to South African music in my composition. Rather, I envisage a kind of general reflection on the city and its inhabitants. Above all, I want to translate my own personal experiences during this stay into music. But, of course, I am also interested in the strange sounds and instruments, in the different forms of musical expression, the musical culture of the country, and in the extent to which it differs from European culture.
Will the fact that you are composing for the Ensemble Modern impact upon your work and your stay here?
LPH: Yes, definitely. When I compose I like to envisage by whom and in what setting the piece will be played. I even like to imagine the specific concert situation.
Is there anyone you would like to meet here?
LPH: Desmond Tutu? But seriously – I‘m just interested in meeting the ordinary people of Johannesburg. I’m keen to learn how people here live, to experience their everyday life, their approach to life and find out what ideas they have. And as regards celebrities, I have no particular preference, apart from Tutu perhaps…
How will you approach this city or country? What would you like to experience?
LPH: I would like to expose myself to different situations, including unpleasant, uncomfortable situations. I want to confront my ambivalence and prejudices towards Johannesburg with the reality and see what happens. That will be my main approach.
How does it feel to be a stranger here?
LPH: After my first day here, I felt that Johannesburg was not as strange as I‘d expected. I was surprised how much it resembled Norway, after all. Of course there are differences, for example, I am in the minority – racially and culturally – for a change. That is definitely a major difference. And then the extreme safety precautions. I am not used to that. These two aspects have been particularly striking.
Do you intend to document your impressions of the city in any way?
LPH: Yes, I would like to record the sounds and noises and, of course, take photos as a way of memorizing things. More important, however, is my diary. It is the first time in my life that I keep a diary.
Have you ever been inspired to write a composition by a location?
LPH: Yes, although not as explicitly as in this project. I once worked with material drawn from the north of Norway, for instance. I spent two weeks travelling around up there to explore how the region differs from Oslo. Generally, I use historical or folk music, or suitable cultural material as the basis for my compositions.
Are you looking to communicate with the other project participants?
LPH: Certainly, but perhaps a little later.
Do you already have a specific idea of what your composition will be like?
LPH: That‘s difficult. I think that the challenge lies in expressing the tension which permeates this city – yes, tension is the key word. Musically translating the tension in this city, with all its parameters, and creating a composition which is, however, open. After all, it‘s not supposed to be a letter or a postcard. The piece must reflect the complexity of Johannesburg and my own personal doubts. It must relate of the origins of the city, and yet be accessible to everyone. I am still not sure, but I think it will be quite an abstract piece.
How do you find your sound?
LPH: Difficult to say. I could go all cryptic and reply that the sounds will find me. But that wouldn‘t be true either. In fact, the opposite is the case. I search for my sounds or rather the material for my pieces – but not only the sounds. I attempt to collect as much material as possible, as you would in a sketch book or on a pin board. I collect everything which I believe could be related to the piece; ideas, and ideas based on other ideas, and misunderstandings – just everything. At a certain point I then begin sorting through the material, discarding the irrelevant and see if a certain direction begins to emerge. That‘s how I work.
Interview 2
In retrospect how would you assess your stay in Johannesburg? Do you feel as if you‘ve got to know the city?
LPH: Well, my stay here has been very intensive, but to claim I now really know the city would be an exaggeration. On the one hand, I‘ve gathered a lot of impressions, visited an incredible number of places and met a lot of people. I‘ve been on a really tight schedule which was good. On the other hand, it is not easy to gain a complete picture because the city is divided up into many small »ghettos«. For example, the older people remain in their communities, isolated from their surroundings by fences and it is like that everywhere. To explore the city and its inhabitants in all its diversity, you have to actually go out and visit these different communities. However, I managed to meet a lot of people from various walks of life and got to know the structure of the city quite well.
What is so fascinating about the city?
LPH: A lot of things spring to mind, but the most important is perhaps this feeling of »incompleteness«, which although also present in other great metropolises, is particularly pronounced in Johannesburg. You can sense the city‘s vast potential, that everything is possible here. Johannesburg is a place of a thousand ideas and projects, a place of hope and optimism. On the other hand, this incompleteness is also a curse, as it is one of the underlying causes of the city‘s security problems. That too is Johannesburg: a dangerous and unsafe city, with a lot of violence and high crime rates. The danger is always lurking – everywhere. This is the darker side of the city.
Could you try and describe the city using just five adjectives.
LPH: Generous, hospitable, optimistic, dangerous and uncompromising.
What have you explored in the city and what themes have your discovered for yourself?
LPH: My main goal was to gain an overview of the city and to get to know as many people as possible – since first and foremost, it is the inhabitants who form the core of a city. But my initial impression of the city was colored by fear. I had read about the xenophobic attacks in the newspapers and everyone had warned me that Johannesburg was a very violent city. I know now that these warnings were rather exaggerated, even if many of my acquaintances have fallen victims to crime. Some have been mugged, another had his car stolen... crime is simply part of everyday life here against which you have to protect yourself. So with this as my starting point, I began exploring intensively the problem of security and safety. For example, I visited a security trade show. »Security« is a booming industry in South Africa nowadays, everyone here has their own security system for their house or car and it is a highly profitable business. To put it mildly, I found this trade show – which showcased a vast array of different security systems – rather disturbing. It was simply capitalizing on people‘s very real fears and is obviously a very lucrative business. This aspect – the connection between people‘s daily lives and their personal safety – fascinated me and lies at the heart of my composition.
But I have also had other experiences and forged many new contacts. For example I was in Soweto for four days where I was shown around by Harold, a local resident. We got on well from the outset – we are roughly the same age and both of us have kids. He works with a group of volunteers who are out patrolling the streets of the township at 4 am in the morning to provide security. It is dangerous to walk through Soweto at night but a lot of people have to get up and go to work when it is still dark. So the local residents have organized these local patrols for their own protection. As a Norwegian having grown up in a regulated society where everyone obeys the law I was fascinated to witness how such self-help projects can actually work. It is impressive to see how these socially-deprived people refuse to bow to their fate and are fighting for a better life. And it works because they want it to.
Has your previous image of the city changed due to your stay?
LPH: Yes. Although I wasn‘t naive enough to believe that everybody here was running around armed to the teeth. I knew that there were people who are not affected by all the unrest. Even so, I still had prejudices about life in the townships, but these were quickly dispelled. I was positively surprised at how smoothly and well-ordered society functions here and how diverse the population is. In many respects, Soweto is a flagship community. Other townships are facing much greater problems but nonetheless my negative preconceptions did not match the reality. I was particularly struck by the degree of hope there is in the townships. For hope is the lifeblood of this city, especially when you consider its history and its role as a melting pot. Johannesburg is Africa‘s portal to the world, a beacon of hope for thousands of people who flock here from all the impoverished parts of the Continent. They come here because they sense that the people in Johannesburg are making a difference. You can almost grasp the atmosphere with your hands.
In what way have your experiences and impressions influenced your composition?
LPH: When working on a composition I see myself as a sort of librarian compiling subjective archives. I collect and categorize the most diverse material which I believe is suitable for my piece. You could say that I am drawing a kind of graphic sketch of my work which over time becomes ever more complex because it is attempting to represent an entire city. And, among other things, this sketch is based on the narrow line between the city and it mass structures, on the one hand, and on the individuals on the other, and how they interact. In this context, football plays a crucial role. The soccer world cup in 2010, for example, carries fundamental implications for the urban planning and the development of the infrastructure, and beyond that, for the emerging identity of the black population. Black South Africans love their soccer even if they know that their team is not among the best. For them football is a passion. I‘m not a great soccer fan myself – tend only to watch the really important world cup games. That‘s why I find it all the more fascinating to observe the significance the sport has in so many people‘s lives. And then there are the vuvuzelas, these cheap plastic horns which make a dreadful racket and which everyone here seems to own. The fans take them into the stadia to cheer on their teams. The vuvuzela is a symbol of South African soccer, and consequently a part of South African culture. And the absurd thing about this instrument is that everyone hates it, particularly the musicians – primarily because of its crude, almost brutal sound. And the government is talking about banning them from the World Cup in 2010! In contrast, I find it interesting, almost like a subculture.
Are you familiar with the music of this country or interested in it? Are you planning to incorporate elements of it into your work?
LPH: Yes, I had four days in Grahamstown, where I spent most of the time in the International Library of African Music, one of the largest collections of indigenous music in Africa. It was obvious to me that on a project like this I first had to learn something about this society‘s music. The South African culture is extremely diverse, boasting an astonishing eleven official languages and many different styles of music. So it was not easy to form a complete picture. Within the city’s vast music scene – which is based on a crossover of jazz and popular music – Johannesburg also has an indigenous scene dominated by the typical township music, whose roots I am especially interested in. But in order to learn more about it, I had to go to the library as you rarely hear it in the city. This traditional South African music has fascinating tunings, although I am not sure whether or how I can integrate these into my composition, as I‘m not yet that far into the compositional process. It is important to bear in mind that the piece will be performed by a German orchestra, by Western musicians. But if I do decide to incorporate them then it would be a major step for me. But I must guard against it becoming superficial which can easily happen. Should I decide to use African sounds then only in a subtle and abstract way.
You have mentioned that you have done some graphic sketches of your work and collected sounds and instruments. Does that mean that your composition is still incomplete and that you won’t finish it until you are back home?
LPH: Yes. I always need a certain distance to be able to complete my work. I have experienced a lot in a very short time and many of the stories I have heard here are unbelievably compelling and impressive – just consider the Apartheid era. My visit to Johannesburg was very emotional. Which is why a little distance is imperative.
Who did you meet here? And what was the outcome?
LPH: I met very different kinds of people. In Soweto, for example, I got to know Harold – whom I mentioned before – and his friends and family. I also met people connected to the Goethe Institute, most of whom come from the West. Incidentally, the Western tradition makes up a large part of the city. I‘ve also met urban planners and some jazz musicians. Although by nature I‘m a rather shy person I have attempted to establish contact with people on the streets, at the markets and in taxis. Taxi drivers are a practical source of information, and as you always travel around in taxis here, you can easily strike up a conversation. I was interested in how the average citizens live their lives here, what their aspirations are, how they view themselves in society and what hopes they have for the future. And that is best achieved by engaging in relaxed conversation.
How have you documented your impressions of the city?
LPH: I’ve taken a lot of photos for my graphical sketches, and also made sound recordings of everything I found interesting. The most important thing, however, was my diary which I’ve been keeping throughout my whole stay here. Important insofar as initially this trip was accompanied by a sense of fear. And a diary is ideally suited to recording both experiences and feelings, and personal reactions to these experiences. It is simply the ideal medium for this purpose.
We would like to learn more details about your composition. Are there some elements that are more clearly defined than others?
LPH: No, in this creative phase it is important for me that everything is still open, and that I am not pushing the piece in a specific direction. However, one thing I am sure of, namely that I am still a long way from being an expert on Johannesburg, even after four weeks. Ultimately it will perhaps be more a piece about me rather than about the city.
How has being a stranger in this city affected you?
LPH: I must admit that my stay here has been an intensive emotional experience for me. Johannesburg is simply overwhelming and you feel small and insignificant in this city. Not because it is so large, but because of the many walls and fences. You always have to pay heed to your security – even the shortest journeys are done in taxis. This situation was very unusual for me because in Norway hardly anyone locks their doors. I‘ve also been alone a lot of the time here and have sometimes felt as if I were imprisoned. In the area where I‘m staying you can walk for a few blocks during the day, but by the time darkness falls you ought to be home again. And in winter it is already dusk by five.
Hence your comment that your composition will possibly be more about you than about the city.
LPH: Yes, and to a certain extent that is perhaps true of every art work, I don‘t know. But when I arrived here I was determined not to create some kind of a musical postcard of Johannesburg. That was my biggest concern. And now, as my visit is coming to an end, I am all the more convinced that my composition will be very subjective and personal.
Could you envisage visiting Johannesburg again?
LPH: Yes, I would love to come again. I may even have the opportunity of returning as early as this October, as part of a Norwegian art project. The organizers approached me when they heard that I was already in the city. And I would also like to show Johannesburg to my family, it is such a wonderful city with so many different facets.
You were asked to buy a small present for the Ensemble Modern which symbolizes the city in your view. Have you found something suitable?
LPH: Yes, I bought a vuvuzela. I think that is a fitting symbol. A vuvuzela is cheap – everyone can afford one – and the professional musicians hate them. Perfect!
Do you feel as if you have discovered the essence of the city?
LPH: I don‘t really like the word »essence«. What does »essence« actually mean? If you are referring to the inhabitants of this city as whole, then I would say, yes, I have done my best to discover it. I have endeavored to engage as many people as possible in conversation and to listen to them. In this context, I would therefore answer your question with yes. On the other hand, if you are referring to the individual inhabitants who really define the »essence« or »core« of a city then it would be naturally impossible to get to know them all – because this would mean getting to know seven million individual »essences«. And the essence of an individual, the core of a person, always has something to do with emotions. And that is always difficult to fathom because everything is permanently in flux. And as I said before, it is this which attracts me to Johannesburg, this incompleteness.
